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Monday Meeting: Population Nil - The White Wolf LiveJournal Community
Much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Monday Meeting: Population Nil
Today's meeting is extremely quiet. The sick count is down to three, but one of those out is Chaney, so the meeting is pretty low-key and quiet. Really, except for Craig refusing to learn how to use the phone and Rich's suggestion that we can do a find-and-replace to switch "goblin" with "vampire," the meeting goes right into whipping around the table:

John: Wrapping up COCD: Underworld and Roll II, poking at our new organizational software Hansoft and preparing for his new LJ feature starting this Thursday. I suggest "Chambers of Love" for the column title.

Brian: Bunch of ads, wrapping up a poster for Exalted, art-directing Roll II and some other marketing stuff.

Joe: Very pleased with the printer's proof of Lords over the Damned, all of Gangrel in and into editor hands tonight, Mekhet mostly in, Nosferatu is slightly delayed but still on course and a bunch of writers and developers hired for 08 and 09.

Craig: Working on the last bits of Daeva before sending it off to proof and art directing Gangrel.

Ethan: Working on Equinox Road and learning Hansoft, bible for a new game to be done by tonight and some contracts for another Changeling book.

Aileen: Finishing Tribes of the Moon and some ads for Kelley before attempting to install Windows and Hansoft on her Mac. A Lords of Summer proof may materialize at the end of the week.

Russell: Iceland bound, but before he goes he'll be working on contracting some writers for the EVE RPG and deciding which RPG is the best to run for drunken vikings.

Chaney: From his email: awaiting card proofs for Twilight Rebellion, awaiting final okay on Innocents, in the middle of dividing up art notes for Dogs of War and compiling an artist list for Hunter.

Eddy: Finished redlines on an SAS and sent those back to the writer this weekend. This week is redlining two Hunter quickstarts, as well as some revision work on Lines of Power and Scion Companion (Pt. 1).

Bax: Polishing up some work on the Hunter quickstarts and updating Hansoft with all of our 08 and 09 projects. I tried to convince him to write my eQuaterly stuff for me, but he didn't understand the question.

the matt: QEN text finally in for layout, Hansoft and Big Board cleanup, meetings and proofs galore, and working on a recruitement panel for HR.

Jess: Finishing up some promotional material before diving into The Harvesters and business cards.

Kelley: Finishing up text on the latest Exalted promotional campaign, working with her boss on going over the Hunter promotional campaign and writing up ads for Aileen.

Aaron: He's doing some stuff. I'd repeat it, but since everyone in Operations has their own knife, it's probably safer if I didn't.

Intern Jason: Cranked out quickstart stuff over the weekend, revising the SAS manuscript I redlined for him and working on some stuff for the Scion Companion, as well as some busy work Russell has him doing.

Intern Priscilla: waiting on the proofs for the eQuarterly before diving back into the image database and some business cards.

Rich: In New York with Aaron next Monday, continuing their unending streak of sharing hotel rooms.

Bill Bridges: Stops by to say "hi."
Today's Reason to Drink: February 11th, 1531 - Henry VIII is recognized as the head of the Church of England. And after a marathon run of the first season of The Tudors on DVD while high on cold medication, I think this is really neat.
45 comments or Leave a comment
sindaran_ainu From: sindaran_ainu Date: February 11th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

Lines of Power, you say...
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 11th, 2008 08:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes, I do say. :)
matt_m_mcelroy From: matt_m_mcelroy Date: February 11th, 2008 09:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
Mage SAS?
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 11th, 2008 09:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Man, I just can't pull off cryptic and enigmatic around you, can I?
das_cyberpunk From: das_cyberpunk Date: February 11th, 2008 09:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
I have a great idea for your Exalted marketing department. It's called "releasing some books".
matt_m_mcelroy From: matt_m_mcelroy Date: February 11th, 2008 09:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
Two Hunter quickstarts?
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 11th, 2008 09:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Indeed. One as we traditionally do for WoD games, and one for Free RPG Day.
matt_m_mcelroy From: matt_m_mcelroy Date: February 11th, 2008 09:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
Gotcha. How different are they going to be?
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 11th, 2008 09:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
About 50% different. Similar core rules, similar signature characters, completely different stories. They kind of relate to one another, but neither requires the other to play.
molez From: molez Date: February 11th, 2008 10:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Any chance of a comment on the reasons for the delay in release of a number of the Exalted books? I know a lot of the fans are currently ranting and venting and knowing what was behind the delay would help a lot?
tybaltbroods From: tybaltbroods Date: February 11th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
i think the anger stems from the DotFA set being pushed back 2 months a week before the release date. but i too would like to know why the abrupt change

From: wwricht Date: February 11th, 2008 10:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
I can comment, certainly. Dreams was originally slated as a December 2007 release. That meant that the last book before it was October 2007. As we mentioned there were some significant delays with the sheer size of the project- three books in a single box, plus the cloth map and other doodads. There was at least one artist replacement and delay in there as well. Dreams also impacted both Scroll of Kings and Yu-Shan even though we scrambled and brought in additional layout people and editors on the three projects(which if you're counting is 5 books total)as it still required attention in the time frame where the other two books would have had their alloted attention. So by falling out of it's schedule, Dreams left us without an Exalted release for the last two months in 2007, and then bumped the first books in 2008 out of their months as well, leaving us without Exalted in the first two months of 2008. Not the situation we would have wanted at all, and very frustrating for us as well as you folks. OTOH, there going to be a nice rush of Exalted stuff in March and April.


sixswordsamurai From: sixswordsamurai Date: February 12th, 2008 12:01 am (UTC) (Link)
Thank you for this Richt, you could have told us to go shag ourselves, but you are kinda reaching out.

I'll go happily pick up Scion God tomorrow.

From: (Anonymous) Date: February 12th, 2008 03:15 am (UTC) (Link)
This is hls from the forums, Livejournal decided to eat my password a few months ago.

I have been pretty vocal on the boards in the last few days about the Exalted community receiving what seemed like an ivory tower treatment in regard to development and delays in the line over the last three or four months, and I just wanted to pop in to thank you for proving me (and numerous other people) wrong. And for putting up the Dreams preview; I can't wait for my copy to arrive.
zenbodhi From: zenbodhi Date: February 12th, 2008 03:31 am (UTC) (Link)
Thank you, wwricht, for the explanation that didn't come until today. I also got the chance (just now) to see the post on White-Wolf's site. I think if fans had been informed of the situation before a change was non-publicly made to release dates, there would have been very little in the way of criticism from the fan base. I, personally, very much appreciate having had someone answer my question/concern.

That having been said, can you say anything about the following two items:

1. Are there any plans in motion for updates/errata on any Exalted products currently in print in Second Edition. If so, is there any sort of time-frame for the release of such information (errata, particularly, has been called for by fans on several of the books). If you can't answer that question, it's cool, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

2. Is there some way to modify/update the White Wolf Game Store Finder? I have recently moved to Maryland and the two stores that are listed for my area have been out of business for more than a year, and the one local store I did find was not on the Game Store Finder.

Thanks again for addressing issues near and dear to my gamer's heart.
From: wwricht Date: February 12th, 2008 03:44 am (UTC) (Link)
And for answers, I have:

#1: I think John Chambers is going to talk about this issue and many others in his LJ posting this Thursday. If you have the time to page through old LJ's, one of mine last year talked about the reasons for this very issue, and that we acknowledge that we've fallen down on the job (I also explain why this happened) and have plans afoot to rectify the issue.

#2: I'll let Marketing know, I think they have the most up to date store finder info.


zenbodhi From: zenbodhi Date: February 12th, 2008 03:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Thank you very much for answering my questions, and it was a pretty speedy response, too!

I had meant to ask this before, and while I've got your attention, I might as well as (and I promise this will be the last question for a while)...

What are White Wolf's plans for the Wiki, if any? I use it pretty heavily (I'm Bodhisattva over there) and I've noticed that not only are we not up to date with the latest version of MediaWiki (which makes coding things like collapsible text boxes much more difficult, I've noticed), but it's pretty much been left alone by the folks on your end of things. I think it would benefit a lot from more "official" involvement in terms of contributions and the occasional "cleanup in aisle four!"-type maintenance, like deleting orphaned pages that have been marked for deletion and such. I'd love to see us have features like "Rate this Article" and a Featured Articles section, plus the occasional drop in by someone from the company saying, "I've just contributed to this cool thing I wanted to share with you all..." Again, I understand if you can't answer any of that, but I hope it's at least tasty food for thought.

krisnitori From: krisnitori Date: February 12th, 2008 03:56 am (UTC) (Link)
All about Question #2 :)

If you want to email me directly - kelley@white-wolf.com - you can let me know what stores are no longer in existence. After I have confirmed that, I can remove those from the store finder.

At White Wolf we don't auto-subscribe other retail stores, but if you give me the name of the one you did find with their contact info, I will be glad to reach out to them and see if they would like to be added to the DB.

I can tell you our new web guru's do have a plan for new store databases in the future. How soon is still up in the air, but I have asked for an auto reminder/confirmation process in the future, so we can keep as current as possible for the fans!
From: (Anonymous) Date: February 12th, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
But why the delay from february to april?
From: wwricht Date: February 12th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Check out my post almost immediately below this one: basically it was the worst series of rolling problems at the printers that we'd seen in years.


From: (Anonymous) Date: February 13th, 2008 03:19 am (UTC) (Link)
Ok, didn't see that. Thanks!
sixswordsamurai From: sixswordsamurai Date: February 11th, 2008 10:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
Seriously, I'm kinda annoyed at not knowing wtf was going on with DotFA. I'm waffling on my continued support of white wolf, and an explaination could definately make strides toward fixing how I feel right now.

From: wwricht Date: February 11th, 2008 10:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Please see above, but also specifically about DotFA, we not only had a long road internally on it (and you begin to see why game companies don't do boxed sets anymore, there is much more involved than just doing three books separately) but our printer had a series of problems as well. Pretty much, it was come in in the morning and find out what new aspect was screwed up. But, I'm told, they are absolutely all done to our specs now and on the proverbial slow boat from China.


sixswordsamurai From: sixswordsamurai Date: February 12th, 2008 12:38 am (UTC) (Link)
Holy crap. If the book is as cool as the excerpt makes it seem...I may feel like a jerk for being so pissed about waiting for it.

the_harvester From: the_harvester Date: February 12th, 2008 01:33 am (UTC) (Link)
The Harvesters?
etherlad From: etherlad Date: February 12th, 2008 03:19 am (UTC) (Link)
Covered that last week (: It's a WOD SAS.
From: (Anonymous) Date: February 12th, 2008 02:44 am (UTC) (Link)


thk you i am in the military so these delays do hurt me. but i appracite the reason why its delayed.
but pls informed us earlier this is a chuck of money to send when it been delayed muliple times. sinch i personel can get my hands on this for next 6 months. it turly hurts the game i play with my fellow servicemen. i know its not much of a consure to you but i felt the need to speak out load. and again thks for explaining why!
etherlad From: etherlad Date: February 12th, 2008 03:25 am (UTC) (Link)
A couple of things...

The final page of the Ventrue preview linked advertises "the return of the Malkavians." Shouldn't that be the Malkovians, or are you deliberately trying to appeal to VTM fans? Seems an odd approach at this point.

I noticed in the catalog that the VTES Twilight Rebellion Booster Pack and Booster Display both have the same product code, WW 02789. Again, don't know if that's deliberate or not.
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 12th, 2008 02:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
The first one is not a mistake, and actually Joe covered it a bit in the thread on the WW forums on Lords Over the Damned.

The second one I'll pass on to Operations. Thanks!

Edited at 2008-02-12 02:08 pm (UTC)
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 12th, 2008 02:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've been assured that the online store is now updated with correct product codes.
bloodandsmoke From: bloodandsmoke Date: February 13th, 2008 05:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Wait, seriously?



... so, is there a reason you guys are throwing out the Malkovians?
wyrm_chris From: wyrm_chris Date: February 13th, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
What reason is there to assume that they're going to throw out the Malkovians?

I mean ... they're in the corebook, right? Which, hopefully, won't self-combust with the release of the Ventrue clanbook, right?
bloodandsmoke From: bloodandsmoke Date: February 13th, 2008 06:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's implicit.

Why have a second, unrelated Ventrue Bloodline which has a one letter name difference? How do you rectify that? I suppose you could call the two Bloodlines related, but that requires either some bizarre metaphysical tie-in or a complete refutation of the previous bloodlines back story. Yes, I realize the WW ninjas won't tear those pages out of the back of my book, but I thought when they were forging a new gameline, they weren't in the business of writing stuff that made previous entries redundant or useless.

Especially since Malkovians were meant as both a tongue-in-cheek reference to Malkavian fans, and was meant to be an example of an adaptation of an oWoD clan to a nWoD bloodline. How does releasing the "real" Malkavians with "real" madness powers help?
oakthorne From: oakthorne Date: February 13th, 2008 07:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here.

Malkavians are not a bloodline.

Joseph D. Carriker, Jr.
Developer, Vampire: the Requiem
From: wwricht Date: February 13th, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ah, you beat me to it, Joe. I was going to be all cryptic too. Seriously, these are not the old Malks, and they are not a bloodline, as Joe says.


(Deleted comment)
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 12th, 2008 02:02 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: well goddam

Your own brand of awesomeness cannot be replicated.
(Deleted comment)
From: eskemp Date: February 12th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
Essentially, yeah, though I see it having some use for people outside Changeling as well. I'll talk more about that tomorrow.
From: oneforellis Date: February 13th, 2008 05:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
Today's Reason to Drink: Malkavians

Because we already have MalkOvians and the marketing is clearly aimed at people who know Masquerade. It breaks my heart.
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 13th, 2008 05:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
This is actually discussed earlier in the post comments.
From: oneforellis Date: February 13th, 2008 05:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
I know, I saw that. I thought the LJ was a chance a for fan feedback. If I kept quiet just because someone already has my opinion you'll never know how many people have that opinion.
eddyfate From: eddyfate Date: February 13th, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ah, I misunderstood. Some readers just comment without reading the other comments, so I thought you missed that. Feedback is always appreciated. :)
oakthorne From: oakthorne Date: February 13th, 2008 07:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
Interestingly, there is a thread on the Vampire forum at White Wolf that touches on this very subject. The thread is titled "Lords Over the Damned."

At the risk of quoting myself from there:

In the case of the Malkavians, I'd rather you didn't think of it as "those Masquerade crazy guys." They're not. Instead, think of it this way: "They came up with some really fascinating approaches to insanity and supernatural madness, and they already had a term for that sort of thing, one which people already identify with." At that point, there's no real good reason not to use it.

Joseph D. Carriker, Jr.
Developer, Vampire: the Requiem
From: wwricht Date: February 13th, 2008 07:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
Eddy, if I might jump in here? I'm also going to post above with the other Malk concerns. To address these specific concerns: as you are aware, the Malkovian bloodline is not the Malkavian clan. That was a design decision with VtR- not a marketing decision- and gave us a cool and logical addition to the Ventrue clan while eliminating some of the elements of the Malkavians that were felt to detract from the World of Darkness- bunny slippered creatures of the night, for example. Unfortunately, the Malkovians being what they are also means that that ragged edge of life/sanity/behavior typified by having an entire clan of madmen is also not as prevalent in the nWoD. This is a question of what the world as we present it to you "feels" like- not a marketing concern- and I asked Will to figure out a way to bring that ragged edge back into VtR. So if Will can do that as a writer, and can resolve why there would be Malkovians and Malkavians- and the name Malkavian can produce an instant expectation that we can then turn on it's ear- then it's worth a bit of concern on all your parts because after that you'll read the book and decide for yourselves if we managed to turn on the cool. Again, all about cool content- not a single decision from marketing.


From: oneforellis Date: February 14th, 2008 12:50 am (UTC) (Link)
I've read and participated in the thread at the forum so I'm not going to clutter things here any further, but I still think it's a poor idea.

It sounds like you're saying that elements of Old world Malkavians needed to be cut out to make Malkovians. Then later it was decided that those elements should be put back into Requiem. I'm just saying I liked it better when those elements were left out.
From: wwricht Date: February 14th, 2008 02:08 am (UTC) (Link)
How do you know? Even with the news of the name returning and my explanation and the testimony of those writers who have actually seen how the Malkavians have been implemented- you still haven't seen it yourself, so I hope you give the book a look and judge for yourself whether we hit the mark. The great thing about VtR is that under no circumstances do you have to use them- you can go on using the Malkovians for as long as you play the game. That's the big advantage of the tool-box approach.


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